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Thread: Are dog breeders as bad as the KKK. PETA thinks so !!

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    Brisbane
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    206

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    Well, I certainly missed this post first time around. I'll chuck my very unpopular 2 cents in, I guess.
    I am one of those radical vegan types that you have heard of. Saying that always changes people's perspective of me.
    Here's the unpopular part. I have so far kept my opinion about this out of other posts, and stayed out of the relevant threads as well, but after reading through this thread, I cannot stay silent. I do have a problem with breeders/breeding. I'm talking in very broad terms here - not personally to anyone on this thread.

    I'll come back to the breeding part in moment, but I want to say that although PETA are extremists, and I acknowledge this - you must also acknowledge that society is so incredibly accepting of violence towards and mistreatment of animals, that in order to catch people's attention, extremism is required. Likening breeders to KKK members, throwing "blood" on celebs wearing fur, etc. None of these are nice things to do, but I can tell you that polite conversation about animal rights no longer gets the message across. Bumper stickers don't get the message across. Even the extremely graphic nature of the live export expose only captured the attention of the nation for a couple of days. Society is incredibly ignorant about so many things, that sometimes, causing annoyance or flat out offence to people is the only way to get them talking about the issue. So, whilst I do not agree with everything that happens in the world of animal activism, I do understand the motives.

    I find that whenever I have a conversation or debate with anyone about my views on animal rights, and veganism, most people seem threatened by it, and feel like I am attacking them, and taking a “holier than thou” type attitude. I don’t. My entire family are carnis, as is my partner, and everyone else I know. I don’t judge them, or anyone else because of their choices, but I do take it upon myself to ask them to consider understanding the reasons behind mine.

    I am a vegan, but I am not perfect. I try to live my life in a way that minimises harm to animals, and the environment as a whole. But, I understand that there is no way for me to live a completely cruelty free life. So I just do the best I can. And there are plenty of people, vegans, just like me, who are out there, trying to do their part – we are not all lunatics.

    Back to the issue at hand. Clearly, I am a dog lover, not just an animal lover.
    As I mentioned, I do have an issue with breeding. My issue is not altogether with the “master race” kind of idea though. I understand, and have read posts by many passionate members here, who are clearly devoted to their breed, and are incredibly responsible dog owners. This is the good part. Unfortunately, the industry is so incredibly poorly regulated, that it is not just backyard breeders that are the problem. Being a “registered” breeder means diddly squat. While puppy farms exist, and while animal shelters and pounds are overrun with discarded pets, I cannot, in good conscience, support a venture that seeks to not only bring more animals into the world, but also financially rewards those responsible.

    I’m going to say it again, I know that there are good breeders out there. Just as I know that there are farms that take exceptional care of their livestock and use humane slaughter methods. The problem is that these responsible breeders are the minority, and not the majority. And unfortunately, there are breeders out there, who are in it for the love of money, and nothing more.

    Of course most people on this forum are aware of puppy farms, but many, many people aren’t. They have no idea that the cute ball of fluff at the pet shop is a product of a puppy farm. No clue that the pup and his mother have been kept in disgusting conditions, mistreated and malnourished. And why should they? No-one talks about it.

    Shortly after we adopted Chopz, the rescue that we adopted him from was involved in a raid on puppy farm from which 17 dogs were rescued, in very poor condition. We’re talking about a low budget, handful of people kind of group, who pay for rescues and treatment out of their own pockets, most of the time. If there were some kind of regulation, some investigation, some spot checking , even background checks on registered breeders, maybe then I could come to a more supportive mindset. There needs to be more to it than filling out a form, and paying a fee.

    I understand that some people are breed purists. I have never owned a purebred, nor will I. I do struggle to understand why people think that purebred is better than crossbred though. I do agree with the statement at the end of the PETA video, that “all dogs are created equal”. I believe that for many, many people, having a purebred / hybrid / dog with a fancy name is a type of status symbol. They feel that paying more for a dog, makes it somehow “better”.

    I am proud that my dogs are rescues. I don’t feel that this makes me “better” than someone who has a purebred, but it is a choice than eases my conscience somewhat. I am glad that I was able to take them, and improve their lives. There are so very many dogs in need throughout Australia, and this really is an issue to which the public turns a blind eye. An unwanted dog is euthanized every four minutes in Australian pounds. Every FOUR minutes. How can that not outrage dog lovers?

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Sydney
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    745

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    I am a registered breeder, I care for my dogs as much as anyone else. Like many of my fellow registered breeders I breed a litter about every 18 months to 2 years. Monetary gain is zero. I am certainly not a minority, how do I know this because I'm around other breeders, like many I am able to follow the rules and regulations and am quite happy to.

    I like purebred dogs not because I think they are better than cross breds but because I can very carefully select a breed to suit my lifestyle. It is something that I recommend to anyone; understand the breed you have chosen and make sure you can meet it's demands. Many people are prepared to evolve their life to suit the dog they have brought home, but many aren't, they have a set criteria for a dog and in many instances this criteria is best suited by a purebred dog, or a dog of known background/personality for any number of reasons, eg fence height, other pets at home, children etc etc

    Even though I love my chosen breed I still donate my time to shelters and do not descriminate against the pure or not so purebred dogs.

    I am in fact the rescue coordinator for my breed in my state and have rehomed 4 Whippets in need this year, including one little cross. In each instance not one was bred by a registered breeder but purchased from unregistered breeders or pet shops.

    Our breed club has offered to help a shelter rehome 2 Whippets in need and to place them in foster care with an experienced Whippet owner who will retrain and assess the dogs. The shelter has refused our help and the dogs have been in the shelters kennels now since November last year. They are slowly deteriorating.

    The money for the rehoming, crates, jackets, desexing, worming etc etc has come out of the pocket of club members who consist of showies/registered breeders.

    My name is automatically down next to any suspected purebred Whippet in any pound in my state.

    Both purebred and crossbred dogs in pounds and shelters will always exist despite all our best efforts, not because of any group of people but because there are idiots in every aspect of the world which includes dogs owners of all types and breeds.

    Afterall why is it the fault of who bred the dog that puts it in a pound or shelter or in need, in my opinion the larger proportion of blame lays with the person who surrended the dog for whatever reason. If I bought a car and couldn't drive it I wouldn't blame the manufacturer, nor the salesperson, the blame would be on me for purchasing the car in the first pace.
    Last edited by MAC; 06-01-2012 at 09:36 PM.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
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    Sunshine coast Qld
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    1,121

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    Quote Originally Posted by D-Dog View Post
    Well, I certainly missed this post first time around. I'll chuck my very unpopular 2 cents in, I guess.
    I am one of those radical vegan types that you have heard of. Saying that always changes people's perspective of me.
    Here's the unpopular part. I have so far kept my opinion about this out of other posts, and stayed out of the relevant threads as well, but after reading through this thread, I cannot stay silent. I do have a problem with breeders/breeding. I'm talking in very broad terms here - not personally to anyone on this thread.

    I'll come back to the breeding part in moment, but I want to say that although PETA are extremists, and I acknowledge this - you must also acknowledge that society is so incredibly accepting of violence towards and mistreatment of animals, that in order to catch people's attention, extremism is required. Likening breeders to KKK members, throwing "blood" on celebs wearing fur, etc. None of these are nice things to do, but I can tell you that polite conversation about animal rights no longer gets the message across. Bumper stickers don't get the message across. Even the extremely graphic nature of the live export expose only captured the attention of the nation for a couple of days. Society is incredibly ignorant about so many things, that sometimes, causing annoyance or flat out offence to people is the only way to get them talking about the issue. So, whilst I do not agree with everything that happens in the world of animal activism, I do understand the motives.

    I find that whenever I have a conversation or debate with anyone about my views on animal rights, and veganism, most people seem threatened by it, and feel like I am attacking them, and taking a “holier than thou” type attitude. I don’t. My entire family are carnis, as is my partner, and everyone else I know. I don’t judge them, or anyone else because of their choices, but I do take it upon myself to ask them to consider understanding the reasons behind mine.

    I am a vegan, but I am not perfect. I try to live my life in a way that minimises harm to animals, and the environment as a whole. But, I understand that there is no way for me to live a completely cruelty free life. So I just do the best I can. And there are plenty of people, vegans, just like me, who are out there, trying to do their part – we are not all lunatics.

    Back to the issue at hand. Clearly, I am a dog lover, not just an animal lover.
    As I mentioned, I do have an issue with breeding. My issue is not altogether with the “master race” kind of idea though. I understand, and have read posts by many passionate members here, who are clearly devoted to their breed, and are incredibly responsible dog owners. This is the good part. Unfortunately, the industry is so incredibly poorly regulated, that it is not just backyard breeders that are the problem. Being a “registered” breeder means diddly squat. While puppy farms exist, and while animal shelters and pounds are overrun with discarded pets, I cannot, in good conscience, support a venture that seeks to not only bring more animals into the world, but also financially rewards those responsible.

    I’m going to say it again, I know that there are good breeders out there. Just as I know that there are farms that take exceptional care of their livestock and use humane slaughter methods. The problem is that these responsible breeders are the minority, and not the majority. And unfortunately, there are breeders out there, who are in it for the love of money, and nothing more.

    Of course most people on this forum are aware of puppy farms, but many, many people aren’t. They have no idea that the cute ball of fluff at the pet shop is a product of a puppy farm. No clue that the pup and his mother have been kept in disgusting conditions, mistreated and malnourished. And why should they? No-one talks about it.

    Shortly after we adopted Chopz, the rescue that we adopted him from was involved in a raid on puppy farm from which 17 dogs were rescued, in very poor condition. We’re talking about a low budget, handful of people kind of group, who pay for rescues and treatment out of their own pockets, most of the time. If there were some kind of regulation, some investigation, some spot checking , even background checks on registered breeders, maybe then I could come to a more supportive mindset. There needs to be more to it than filling out a form, and paying a fee.

    I understand that some people are breed purists. I have never owned a purebred, nor will I. I do struggle to understand why people think that purebred is better than crossbred though. I do agree with the statement at the end of the PETA video, that “all dogs are created equal”. I believe that for many, many people, having a purebred / hybrid / dog with a fancy name is a type of status symbol. They feel that paying more for a dog, makes it somehow “better”.

    I am proud that my dogs are rescues. I don’t feel that this makes me “better” than someone who has a purebred, but it is a choice than eases my conscience somewhat. I am glad that I was able to take them, and improve their lives. There are so very many dogs in need throughout Australia, and this really is an issue to which the public turns a blind eye. An unwanted dog is euthanized every four minutes in Australian pounds. Every FOUR minutes. How can that not outrage dog lovers?
    Thank you D-dog, I agree with you 100%. If I could have written my thoughts on how things really are as opposed to the public or personal perception, my thoughts would be almost the same as yours.
    The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mohandas Gandhi

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    90

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    PETA I think are harmless to be honest.

    They are just whacked up hippies trying to save the next thing.

    Extreme no doubt.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Brisbane, Qld
    Posts
    228

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    PETA are a pest. They're always sticking their noses in where they're not wanted, lol. There's animal rights, and then there's PETA, who is an extremist group (although a relatively low-key one). Bunch of hippies, bacon is delicious.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    melbourne
    Posts
    372

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    hmm yes everyone loves the extremists.... lol
    all taken with a grain of salt.
    i'm sure if we took all the good things about a lot of organizations we could make something good that everyone could agree on.
    but no one ever agree's on anything good that will work. Well no one in power anyway... ha
    to much money and control to be had... and most people in these kind of groups are easy controlled with the right push of a few buttons.
    and all you hear about is the bad stuff... never anything good or the good people out there that are trying to make a difference for the positive.
    its all blood this gore that abuse this kill that.....
    sure theirs plenty of good breeders as there are bad ones. lets hope more good..

    and plants grow and move ever so slowly growing bigger converting different kinds of energy to live and grow... does that mean they arnt alive. heck some plants eat meat!
    so be definition, doesn't that mean, they are killing something that is there for living to survive. meat.. plant... well, its all that's acceptable in said country to eat. heck we all know some places they eat dog....
    lets hope never in AU, but I'm pretty sure horse and dog will stay off the menu for a long long time in down under from people in power that i know.

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