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Thread: So We Can Discuss It

  1. #51
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    Ok Im going to put my 2 bobs worth in.....

    I rescued a bitch who was pregnant. She had the pups, all were found homes and all but 1 family are in contact.
    Bitch suffered from aggression issues, vet told me NOT TO DESEX until these issues were sorted out (something to do with hormones), we had an entire male at home. HE WAS KEPT SEPARATED AT ALL TIMES!.
    Backyard was fully enclosed i.e. caged top, bottom and iron sides.

    Bitch goes into season....neighbours entire male jumps 6ft fence onto cage top and eats it away from the corner, which was capped on.
    Bitch gets pregnant, no one knows until she starts acting odd, gets taken to the vet and is pregnant....too late to abort.

    Someone on here said that you shouldnt have an entire bitch AND dog. They also said follow vet instructions.

    Well take it from me.......VETS DONT KNOW ALL!......some males (not mine) will do ANYTHING to get to a bitch...ANYTHING!

    So I am one of those BYB's who had an "Oops Litter" thats 'not really an oops litter'. I did everything in my power to keep her away from males....sometimes it just isnt enough.

    I payed my price for my mistakes.............I lost my girl

  2. #52
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    That's terrible

    I don't think anyone could judge you for that situation, you did everything you could to keep her isolated and you were following vet's instructions.

  3. #53
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    Yep but you did something. You tried to do something, you didn't go to out and not DO something.

    I know only too well how determined they are. I don't have a stainless steel airport crate for no reason. I haven't gone 20 odd years without anything happening just thru luck. And I certainly haven't enjoyed having that crate in my lounge room for the past month but.....

    I didn't name a pup after her because I thought you did nothing, I did it because you are someone who did.

    And no vets don't know everything I'll agree with you 100% there, they are one of my least favourite group of people and yet a really good one is worth their weight in gold damn shame they are so hard to find.

    And because most people do not realise this a bitch that has had puppies will come back into season much earlier than usual. You do not have the usual 6 months or so, it can be as early as 3 months after the birth of the puppies, so find a good vet who can cope with that.
    Last edited by mouseandchicken; 06-10-2010 at 09:26 AM.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by mouseandchicken View Post
    Yep but you did something. You tried to do something, you didn't go to out and not DO something.

    I know only too well how determined they are. I don't have a stainless steel airport crate for no reason. I haven't gone 20 odd years without anything happening just thru luck. And I certainly haven't enjoyed having that crate in my lounge room for the past month but.....

    I didn't name a pup after her because I thought you did nothing, I did it because you are someone who did.

    And no vets don't know everything I'll agree with you 100% there, they are one of my least favourite group of people and yet a really good one is worth their weight in gold damn shame they are so hard to find.

    And because most people do not realise this a bitch that has had puppies will come back into season much earlier than usual. You do not have the usual 6 months or so, it can be as early as 3 months after the birth of the puppies, so find a good vet who can cope with that.
    Thank you MAC, you will never know how much this means to me

    I just hope I can stop others from going through what I did!

  5. #55
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    Assuming you do everything properly throughout and after the pregnancy, what's the mortality rate for mums and pups?

  6. #56
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    I hope you can too mate. I really do.

    And if I can get so personal as to say that when you get older sometimes you get tougher, and you realise you can't save them all, you realise that sometimes it's best to let one go for the sake of so many.

    It took me a long time to come to that, not until I worked in a very large kennel and the owner having been in the animal industry for a long time who appeared to me sometimes to be quite hard and he told me that sometimes we have to look at ourselves to know what we are capable of taking on because right behind that one is another one that will flourish from our love with very little effort.

    I guess what I'm saying is for people who take in dogs from rescues etc it's human of us to want to take the one that won't be here tomorrow but if it doesn't fit our criteria or our home environment are we going to make the situation better or worse.

    I shouldn't speak for Shar but I will hazard a guess that she searches for that right home for a dog because she wants to stop what is happening not add to it.

  7. #57
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    Hard to answer Meegs.

    I've been very lucky, I've never had to take any of my mothers to the vet and all have been very good or reasonable mothers.

    I like knowing when to sit back and when to help out, I like knowing what's an acceptable timeframe and what isn't.

    While people say animals give birth naturally all the time without our help we certainly make a big difference in upping the survival rate of the pups.

    And vets certainly do save the lives of mothers that might otherwise have bled out.

    And having experience can certainly save you vet bills or the life of puppies very easily.

    So in a nut shell provided you do everything right and depending on the breed very good.
    Last edited by mouseandchicken; 06-10-2010 at 10:22 AM.

  8. #58
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    Thanks MAC.

    People can say dogs give birth in the wild all the time without human interference - well people gave birth for centuries without decent medical care, doesn't mean the maternal and baby death rate wasn't horrendous.

  9. #59

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    Sorry I'm a little late in this thread but bear with me... I actually told MAC part of this story the other day so you will have to bear with me as well

    My parents have been breeding for 21 years, they are reputable and darn proud of their methods and practices. I have seen my mum in tears because of some of the horror stories she has heard from supposed 'reputable, registered breeders'. What upset her is the fact that there isn't a damn thing she can do about it.

    A friend of hers bought a puppy with a heart defect. It is a defect that is picked up at birth and it is hereditary. She KNEW the breeder knew about it and she knew that breeder didn't give a hoot, they have bred from that dog many times.
    The person who bought the puppy told several people about what had happened and it eventually got back to the breeder. The breeder threatened to sue her for slander as it wasn't true!!! They had vet reports stating that the puppies heart was healthy at the time of sending.
    Now whether the reports were falsified, altered or what we don't know but there was something seriously amiss there. Because there was no proof there was nothing that could be done. Her friend is now over $3000 out of pocket and that breeder still producing unhealthy puppies.

    In regards to "Ooops litters" I agree, there is no such thing as an oops litter... there is however, such things as oops matings.
    When my parents were first starting out one of their bitches came into season. They put her in the bedroom at the front of the house, and the boys in the bedrooms down the back of the house... there were 3 doors separating them.

    The bitch in the front room jumped through a closed glass window to get to the male who was in the backyard at the time.
    Naturally they mated.
    They were full brother and sister.

    Now did mum go "oh shoot, that shouldn't have happened... oh well"? Of course not.
    Mum went "oh shoot, that shouldn't have happened, better go to the vet for a misalignment injection"

    Yes, she had an oops mating, but not an oops litter.
    She has now learned her lesson that the will of a female in heat should not be underestimated!
    I know I say to people to crate their dogs when in season, and you are probably thinking 'hypocrite' after that, but how do you think I learned my lesson? Through what happened to them.

    I do not have the patience to pander to people who have oops litters... does that pi$$ people off? sure does. But I'm not the kind of person who watches someone do something stupid and not tell them what they did wrong.
    I get sick of being told what I should and shouldn't say to people incase I 'upset' them, what's done is done and all the BS.
    Yes, what's done is done, but if people don't let them know what they did is wrong (on so many levels) then what's to stop them from letting it happen again.

    Yes, so I'm the bad guy, and if it makes everyone hate me then so be it. But if it makes that person think twice about breeding, or even just being careful next time they have a bitch in season then it's worth it.
    Some people need information drilled into their brains before they actually listen to it.

    /end of rant.

  10. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crested_Love View Post
    I do not have the patience to pander to people who have oops litters... does that pi$$ people off? sure does. But I'm not the kind of person who watches someone do something stupid and not tell them what they did wrong.
    I get sick of being told what I should and shouldn't say to people incase I 'upset' them, what's done is done and all the BS.
    Yes, what's done is done, but if people don't let them know what they did is wrong (on so many levels) then what's to stop them from letting it happen again.

    Yes, so I'm the bad guy, and if it makes everyone hate me then so be it. But if it makes that person think twice about breeding, or even just being careful next time they have a bitch in season then it's worth it.
    Some people need information drilled into their brains before they actually listen to it.

    /end of rant.
    I have to say I agree with what you have written here. I really don't understand with this Forum how people start threads and when your opinion differs from the majority, all of a sudden you are "judging" people. I don't judge anybody here, when I post in a thread it is my opinion, I speak truthfully and answer the threads with an open mind to try and see things from another point of view whilst getting my own thoughts heard. I also understand that there will be people who have a differing opinion to mine. That makes neither mine nor theirs right or wrong, it is just that due to our own life experiences etc we have a different view on things.

    Judge I am one of those people who says don't keep entire dogs together and you won't have an accidental litter. To me it is that simple. I totally get that each situation is different but in my expreience everybody that I know who has had one of these "oops" litters, all could have been prevented. Has that tarnished my view on these oops litters, most likely but also taking in rescue dogs and watching many other rescuers desperately trying to save the hundreds of thousands dogs each year has also changed my opinions on them.

    I think for me one of the most annoying aspects of the "oops" litter is the people who jump up and down saying it was accidental, couldn't be prevented etc etc and yet after the fact they will not desex their dogs and will then rehome undesexed pups from the litter with the chance that those pups will continue the cycle. I can see from most of the people here who have had litters, they have done their best to educate others and desex etc. Sadly not all do.

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