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Thread: So We Can Discuss It

  1. #11
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    My Noah (and Pandiis Seb) are from an oops litter from a reg breeder. Their parents were apparently mother and son. I would sure as hell not give Noah up now, however should this litter have been terminated - ABSOLUTELY.

    Of the 5 pups from this litter, Noah is all but blind (even after about 3k worth of surgeries), Molly had an almost fatal cleft palate (now repaired), Jake has a heart murmer, Seb a broken tail (? unsure the result of what) and the last boy from what I hear is the only one who had good health at birth.

    From what we understand, this reg breeder tried to sell the pups off cheap, but to no avail, so then DUMPED them in different parks around Sydney.

    Do I support reputable reg breeders - ABSOLUTELY!!!! unfortunately, from my experience in the pei world they are a reasonably uncommon breed themselves.

    As for the general public living under a rock and not realising just how many dogs and cats are in our pounds, I think you would be surprised just how many do live under that rock MAC. Given you are a part of the dog world, you are aware, but amazingly there are many, many who are not aware.

    And to the woman who rang me yesterday to tell me she "had 4 pups to get rid of" well, all I can say is for dog's sake, get your female pei X kelpie and your male kelpie desexed......you stupid cow! (no apologises here for this)!!

    Why should I clean up her mess? pay for the desex of these dogs, worm, microchip, vaccinate etc and then try desparately to rehome an AWFUL mix of working dog/dominant breed dog. I just can't understand why?? And frankly I can't cope with the guilty feeling when I say no, I can't help, it just eats me alive.
    Last edited by Shar Pei Rescue Victoria; 06-08-2010 at 10:17 PM.
    SPR fosters:Rowland, Matrix, Mia, Arizona, Romeo, Wrinkles, George, Molly, Su Lin, Ellie, Charlie, Charlotte, Lulu, Montana http://www.sharpeirescue.com.au

  2. #12
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    Aug 2009
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    Adelaide
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    I do wonder at the number of people who post on here that they are about to or have just bought some designer breed from a pet shop and are completely oblivious to the industry they support by doing that. Actually I meet heaps of these people face to face. Even my neighbour got a spoodle - a couple of months ago. He didn't ask me where to get a dog, he just went to a pet shop. Isn't that where you get puppies from - ARGH.

  3. #13

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    Very well said Amanda & Hy...

    I agree with every word that your saying girls..

  4. #14

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    mouseandchicken (however did you come up with that name?) i read your post and you do sound like a responsible breeder. Many just breed and sell the pups,not caring,but from what i have read,you do care.

    I at one time wanted to be a vet nurse,and did work experience and voluntary work at a vet clinic,as well as in one of the big animal homes in the city. There was a b!tch come in with pups,and the dog had to go in quarantine. Due the fact they didnt know what was wrong,and the owners had no intention to keep the pups,they had to be put down. I was the one that had to hand the pups to the vet for that injection,giving that slobbering,furry,excited pup a last cuddle before they fell asleep and crossed over. I was the one that had to then take those 8-9 pups to the storage and find a spot on the trolleys to place them,fearing that they would fall off as it was um,well stocked.

    There are many breeders out there who just dont care,its so nice and refreshing to read a post and hear about a person who cares about their dogs breeding,who control their dogs breeding.

    You offer support in breeding? May i ask if you will offer assistance with a query i wish to make? I am to buy a Japanese Spitz and the breeder has stated that the dog be de-sexed at 5mths old. However,i have also had a cat (male) who was de-sexed at only 8wks old. Can this be done? Is it successful? Is it best to wait til the 5mths? So many de-sexing things have changed now in regards to the age that it can be done. I wish to be fully prepared for my little bundle,from having all the things needed (eg: bedding, bowls, food, toys, leads, collars, flea/worm treatments etc) but not only that,i also wish to have pre-paid my vet for a de-sexing prior to getting my dog. That way i have all in readiness. I am just not sure on an age as i hear so many conflicting ages

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by BULLYT View Post
    I don't believe in these so called "oops" litters.
    Insert scenario here:

    Person takes on a bitch from a hideous situation. A very well bred, lovely example of her breed that deserved far, far better, for no other reason than to fix her up and find her the home she deserved - ie. not that person's usual breed. Here is a breed that is very, very hard to pet home, and this girls best chance was in a great show or breeding home - of which she was a very worthy girl.

    Girl is in season, locked "safely" away. Owner's male is let out to toilet in separate section of yard, girls climbs one fence and smashes (and I mean SMASHES) six foot solid timber gate and is tied with male before anyone can intervene.

    Girl goes to vet for course of expensive injections. All seems good. Later, is found that said expensive injections work on 90 something percent of girls - she is in the other few percent. She is now in late term pregnancy.

    What to do now? Desex at late stage? Vet says, big risk...
    Risk her life and ruin her future show and breeding prospects? Or take responsibilty for what happened and deal with it.

    Choose deal with it. Life deals crap sometimes, play your hand.
    7 Crossbred pups are born. 3 survive for numerous reasons not related to care or husbandry. Mum rejects them at 4 days and the next few weeks are a blur of vet visits, bottle feeds and bills.

    Pups desexed and rehomed at 8 weeks, with known and trusted friends. Lifetime support offered - one is returned at 8 months no questions asked.

    It may not be every scenario - but Oops litters certainly do happen.

    That, above, was me. And it was a very, very difficult time. There was a vast swathe of personal things going on at the time that made it nearly unbearable. But my mistake caused those pups to exist, so it was my responsibility to make the best of it, even if they stayed with me for their lives.

    Every situation is different.

    Lots of breeders house different breeds of dogs and sometimes the worst can happen. Dogs are wily creatures when it comes to breeding. The pups can end up in a bucket of water or similar, or the owner can take responsibilty for becoming involved in this crap situation and do what they can to ensure a good safe life for those pups.

    Be slow to judge others and perhaps you will be afforded the same courtesy one day.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    Melbourne, australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nattylou View Post
    Insert scenario here:

    Person takes on a bitch from a hideous situation. A very well bred, lovely example of her breed that deserved far, far better, for no other reason than to fix her up and find her the home she deserved - ie. not that person's usual breed. Here is a breed that is very, very hard to pet home, and this girls best chance was in a great show or breeding home - of which she was a very worthy girl.

    Girl is in season, locked "safely" away. Owner's male is let out to toilet in separate section of yard, girls climbs one fence and smashes (and I mean SMASHES) six foot solid timber gate and is tied with male before anyone can intervene.

    Girl goes to vet for course of expensive injections. All seems good. Later, is found that said expensive injections work on 90 something percent of girls - she is in the other few percent. She is now in late term pregnancy.

    What to do now? Desex at late stage? Vet says, big risk...
    Risk her life and ruin her future show and breeding prospects? Or take responsibilty for what happened and deal with it.

    Choose deal with it. Life deals crap sometimes, play your hand.
    7 Crossbred pups are born. 3 survive for numerous reasons not related to care or husbandry. Mum rejects them at 4 days and the next few weeks are a blur of vet visits, bottle feeds and bills.

    Pups desexed and rehomed at 8 weeks, with known and trusted friends. Lifetime support offered - one is returned at 8 months no questions asked.

    It may not be every scenario - but Oops litters certainly do happen.

    That, above, was me. And it was a very, very difficult time. There was a vast swathe of personal things going on at the time that made it nearly unbearable. But my mistake caused those pups to exist, so it was my responsibility to make the best of it, even if they stayed with me for their lives.

    Every situation is different.

    Lots of breeders house different breeds of dogs and sometimes the worst can happen. Dogs are wily creatures when it comes to breeding. The pups can end up in a bucket of water or similar, or the owner can take responsibilty for becoming involved in this crap situation and do what they can to ensure a good safe life for those pups.

    Be slow to judge others and perhaps you will be afforded the same courtesy one day.
    Can I ask if you would terminate the pregnancy if a safe time permitted once you realised Natty?
    SPR fosters:Rowland, Matrix, Mia, Arizona, Romeo, Wrinkles, George, Molly, Su Lin, Ellie, Charlie, Charlotte, Lulu, Montana http://www.sharpeirescue.com.au

  7. #17
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red View Post
    mouseandchicken (however did you come up with that name?) i read your post and you do sound like a responsible breeder. Many just breed and sell the pups,not caring,but from what i have read,you do care.

    I at one time wanted to be a vet nurse,and did work experience and voluntary work at a vet clinic,as well as in one of the big animal homes in the city. There was a b!tch come in with pups,and the dog had to go in quarantine. Due the fact they didnt know what was wrong,and the owners had no intention to keep the pups,they had to be put down. I was the one that had to hand the pups to the vet for that injection,giving that slobbering,furry,excited pup a last cuddle before they fell asleep and crossed over. I was the one that had to then take those 8-9 pups to the storage and find a spot on the trolleys to place them,fearing that they would fall off as it was um,well stocked.

    There are many breeders out there who just dont care,its so nice and refreshing to read a post and hear about a person who cares about their dogs breeding,who control their dogs breeding.

    You offer support in breeding? May i ask if you will offer assistance with a query i wish to make? I am to buy a Japanese Spitz and the breeder has stated that the dog be de-sexed at 5mths old. However,i have also had a cat (male) who was de-sexed at only 8wks old. Can this be done? Is it successful? Is it best to wait til the 5mths? So many de-sexing things have changed now in regards to the age that it can be done. I wish to be fully prepared for my little bundle,from having all the things needed (eg: bedding, bowls, food, toys, leads, collars, flea/worm treatments etc) but not only that,i also wish to have pre-paid my vet for a de-sexing prior to getting my dog. That way i have all in readiness. I am just not sure on an age as i hear so many conflicting ages
    Red, MAC is well reputed as being a reputable and responsible breeder. I am 1000km away and I know this from the internal dog world, not because I have met MAC. A reputation that preceeds in this case!
    SPR fosters:Rowland, Matrix, Mia, Arizona, Romeo, Wrinkles, George, Molly, Su Lin, Ellie, Charlie, Charlotte, Lulu, Montana http://www.sharpeirescue.com.au

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shar Pei Rescue Victoria View Post
    Can I ask if you would terminate the pregnancy if a safe time permitted once you realised Natty?
    Yes, and I have done in other rescue cases - especially where desexing is required and not detrimental to the bitch.
    But the minute differences in each individual matter might not be obvious to those of us who have only what limited information we are provided.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nattylou View Post
    Yes, and I have done in other rescue cases - especially where desexing is required and not detrimental to the bitch.
    But the minute differences in each individual matter might not be obvious to those of us who have only what limited information we are provided.
    Yeh understand and fair enough. I have no experience whatsoever with canine pregnancy, it is something that freaks me right out.
    SPR fosters:Rowland, Matrix, Mia, Arizona, Romeo, Wrinkles, George, Molly, Su Lin, Ellie, Charlie, Charlotte, Lulu, Montana http://www.sharpeirescue.com.au

  10. #20
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    Red,
    No I do not offer support to help someone breed their dog. What I will do is answer questions via this forum to people who insist on going thru with an unplanned pregnancy.

    I do this not for the sake of the person but because a pregnant dog is under the care of someone that has had no prior experience and who is obviously on a site because they have no one closer with knowledge to ask.

    If you want to be in the dog world, first and foremost you have to like people. And as much as I would like to smack em up the side of the head, it won't help the bitch or the puppies. The mean side of me says let them flounder, hope the birth is a nightmare etc etc and they will learn their lesson. Then the other side of me says I just can't do that.

    We can only each hopefully chip away in our own little corner of the world and do our bit.

    Currently Pedigree has an ad running on TV, it talks about the dogs that don't get adopted. There is education out there but people don't want to see it.

    For us here dogs are the be all and end all, I know they certainly are for me, for others they are objects.

    I'm not saying unplanned litters can't happen, what I do find amazing is why, unless you are planning on breeding or are showing WHY would you ever want to keep entire dogs/bitches in the first place.

    I am also aware that not every registered breeder is reputable, some are blind to the problems in their own kennel. But lets face it I've seen people put more effort into researching a new mobile phone than they do the right breed for them and the best breeder of that breed.

    Being a breeder is not always the best fun either. There is nothing harder than realising that your beloved bitch or dog does not produce good stock, having it desexed and then finding it a home because you cannot keep them all.

    Sometimes I even positively hate it. I cringe when I see my credit card bill at the end of the month and can see quite clearly that the biggest expenditure for that month was the dogs.

    Anyway I'm getting OT. I think 5 months is a good age to desex your puppy, but also speak to your vet at their last booster appointment and see what they say. For my peace of mind the puppy needs to have some weight on it for best recovery from being put under GA. Ask the breeder when her entire females generally first come into season this will give you some idea of when this breed and this line matures and make sure you beat that time frame. I own whippets and most do not come into season for the first time until they are over 12 months of age, not uncommon to sighthounds, but one must remember that there are always exceptions to the rules and inspect their bitch, as horrible as that may sound, but I still recommend de-sexing well before that. My puppy owners don't leave my place without pictures, a few horror stories of what their floor will look like etc, I then generally find them asking how early it can be done.
    Last edited by mouseandchicken; 06-09-2010 at 06:52 AM.

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