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Thread: Bailey ....... Surrogate Mum????

  1. #1
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    Question Bailey ....... Surrogate Mum????

    Been speaking with another member here...privately about this and wanted to get some thoughts from others.

    The pups are coping okay with the loss of Mully however they are a bit sooky and have become extremely attached to Bailey....Through our glass sliding door.
    They will sit there for anywhere up to an hour crying for her and then when she comes they all lick the glass (Bailey does too) and they become more calm.

    Bailey seems to want to take on the role of 'mum' and is very protective of them. I have let her inside today and supervised her reaction to them. This is what I found -

    She is very protective of them....when Tyson gets grumpy through the glass she will bark and give a short gruff growl. Then she nuzzles all the pups away from the glass! - She was fine with Tyson when she was let back outside with him. Lots of wagging tails so that's good.

    She seems to want to feed them! This something that concern me greatly. She will lay down on her side and push her back leg right out the way and has no problem with them suckling - even though there is NOTHING for them to suckle!
    This concerns me because I have an inkling that Mullys problems may have come from having puppies. I don't want this to happen to Bailey! I know that if the puppies continue to suckle from her, although she is desexed, this can stimulate milk production. In the meantime though...will this hurt her?

    The pups have teeth now and I have been weaning them off of milk for the past 2 weeks. Should I let them feed from Bailey? Will this undo all the weaning progress so far? Or can I let them feed from her AND eat puppy food etc?

    She started to lick and clean them all even stimulating them to wee and poo (although they can do it themselves now) and has been cleaning up their messes.

    I of course will only be doing this supervised although I completely trust her with them (as much as you can trust any dog)

    Any thoughts people? Suggestions or info to add?

    Cheers in advance

  2. #2
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    Just to add.....

    I have googled dogs becoming surrogate mums to try and read up on some info and cant find anything to help!

    Anyone have any idea? Please?

  3. #3
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    I'm really sorry I wish I could help.

    I would say if the puppies are weaned you should not let the puppies suckle. My ex's family bred heelers and once the babies were their own dog so to speak, mum wasn't allowed to feed or anything.

    As long as Bailey doesn't get nasty if you go near the pups and they're happy to be played with and loved, I don't see it being an issue.

    On the other hand, I suppose with Mully passing away and the puppies going to their new home, it might be too much for her and she could get depressed. This is only based on my brief run in with breeding, by no means expert.

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    Just bumping this thread since there are so many users online

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    Having puppies doesn't turn a bitch nasty - the nasty has to be there from before. Yes, bitches are protective of their pups and will show aggression but showing aggression is vastly different from being aggressive.

    ETA: I assume aggression is the issue from your post?
    Last edited by Occy; 01-17-2010 at 08:01 PM.

  6. #6
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    Sorry Judge, I wish I could help but I have no experience with raising puppies, I wouldn't even like to make suggestions in case it's the wrong thing.

    But how sweet of Bailey to help look after the pups!

    In My Home Dog Minding
    www.greyhoundrescue.com.au

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    Quote Originally Posted by Occy View Post
    Having puppies doesn't turn a bitch nasty - the nasty has to be there from before. Yes, bitches are protective of their pups and will show aggression but showing aggression is vastly different from being aggressive.

    ETA: I assume aggression is the issue from your post?
    Yes Occy thats right although not just Dog aggression. Human aggression too. Im very worried it could be passed on to her pups...which Bailey is.

    If you would like to know the full story read Mullys Story Thread....sorry dont know how to put in a link

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    I would think that having a mother figure would be a good thing for the pups. Being a mum doesn't normally spark aggression, I think Mully's problems stemmed from something else and she couldn't cope with the overwhelming hormonal and emotional changes surrounding motherhood (and maybe life in general )

    If Bailey is desexed she shouldn't produce any milk. But she may well give them an adult lead and important social skills that they won't get from you, and probably didn't get from Mully.

    It is normal for other bitches in a pack to take part in raising pups - usually if they're related to the mother but not always.

    Trust your heart. I know you've been through hell lately and you're worried about the babies. But if Bailey wants to help them (and you) and you trust her then it should be ok.

  9. #9
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    Judge, having a litter does not turn a bitch into an aggressive dog. All mothers are pretective of their young (well most anyway if I must be technical.) Natural protectiveness of young is totally different to portraying dog or human aggression.

    I can't help you here with this one, I'm sorry. My opinion and what I personally would do would probably start a war here and shock the hell out of everybody.

    I wish you all the best Judge.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nattylou View Post
    I would think that having a mother figure would be a good thing for the pups. Being a mum doesn't normally spark aggression, I think Mully's problems stemmed from something else and she couldn't cope with the overwhelming hormonal and emotional changes surrounding motherhood (and maybe life in general )

    If Bailey is desexed she shouldn't produce any milk. But she may well give them an adult lead and important social skills that they won't get from you, and probably didn't get from Mully.

    It is normal for other bitches in a pack to take part in raising pups - usually if they're related to the mother but not always.

    Trust your heart. I know you've been through hell lately and you're worried about the babies. But if Bailey wants to help them (and you) and you trust her then it should be ok.
    The reason I say she may produce milk is that my mums bitch was desexed and had never had a litter and she used to produce milk for baby rabbits...I know it WEIRD lol

    How can I stop the pups from trying to feed from her? Since she wont tell them herself?

    Im hoping she can give them the social skills they need and also some one on one contact (the type I cant provide) that all babies yearn for.

    I think I will continue to let her help, although to be honest I really dont think I have much choice - she tries helping through the sliding door and if they are in their pen she will stand at the sliding door and cry constantly until I let her in to investigate.

    She has told one pup off since I last posted. The little male was biting her on the nose and she growled softly, the pup continued biting so she gently pushed him away with her nose a few times until he got the point.
    No snapping which is great I will continue to do this supervised for a little while though and see how things progress.

    Im very worried about them hurting her teats if they continue to try and feed. Is there anything I can do to get them to stop or will she tell them herself if they hurt her?

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