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Thread: First time breeder in need of advise

  1. #51
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
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    Adelaide
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    I think part of the problem is trying to make rules that are measurable that will stop puppy mills but leave other breeders alone. I think a quota on how many breeding bitches they can have on one property might help. Eg set the limit at something easy that no working dog breeder would have. Or where it gets to be "farming" ie the dogs are not getting enough human contact because there are so many hours in a day and not enough to spend any quality time with any dog. And cleaning the cage doesn't really count.

    Personally I think 10 bitches is too many and 30 is ridiculous so 300 (Yes this exists in Victoria) is a puppy mill and should be shut down. You can manage 300 sheep but 300 breeding bitches is wrong - in my opinion. And something else that would be easy to measure is the ratio of full time staff or staff hours to bitches.

    A puppy mill with 300 bitches - is going to overwork their boys too - hence the age restriction there. An Adelaide based poodle breeder found out one of her males had been taken by a puppy farm. It was kept in a tiny cage where it couldn't properly stand up and turn around, and only got out for breeding duty. That's the kind of thing that should be outlawed. The ANKC poodle breeder (has really nice dogs), got her poodle boy back and rehomed him in a much better environment.

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Rural Western Australia
    Posts
    2,351

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    Quote Originally Posted by bernie View Post
    Why?
    Why would a working dog need a game of ball when its finished its work for the day? I am unsure of the goal that is trying to be achieved in this?

    And why would each dog have its own water bowl?


    And why cant a male breed past 6yrs of age? Is that coz the sperm like in humans, starts throwing defected offspring past middle age?
    I am happy to follow a guideline that makes logical sense, and perhaps there is sound logic behind these requirements i cannot see immediatelY?
    They were rules put in place to make sure that strict levels of hygiene and dog enrichment protocols were in place to try and clamp down on puppy mills. Working dog breeders got caught up in it and had to lobby to prove that their situation had some major differences. They were only a few examples of protocols that were totally unsuitable for a working dog breeder situation. I dont think that working was listed under suitable enrichment protocols for companion animals.

  3. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyacinth View Post
    I think part of the problem is trying to make rules that are measurable that will stop puppy mills but leave other breeders alone. I think a quota on how many breeding bitches they can have on one property might help. Eg set the limit at something easy that no working dog breeder would have. Or where it gets to be "farming" ie the dogs are not getting enough human contact because there are so many hours in a day and not enough to spend any quality time with any dog. And cleaning the cage doesn't really count.

    Personally I think 10 bitches is too many and 30 is ridiculous so 300 (Yes this exists in Victoria) is a puppy mill and should be shut down. You can manage 300 sheep but 300 breeding bitches is wrong - in my opinion. And something else that would be easy to measure is the ratio of full time staff or staff hours to bitches.

    A puppy mill with 300 bitches - is going to overwork their boys too - hence the age restriction there. An Adelaide based poodle breeder found out one of her males had been taken by a puppy farm. It was kept in a tiny cage where it couldn't properly stand up and turn around, and only got out for breeding duty. That's the kind of thing that should be outlawed. The ANKC poodle breeder (has really nice dogs), got her poodle boy back and rehomed him in a much better environment.
    To find one of your dogs had found its way into that situation would be nightmare! Glad there was a happy ending for that one, at least.

    I would prefer to see people each taking responsibility to educate each other on what practices help to MAXIMISE success. To understand a dogs needs, as a species that has evolved to live and work alongside man, so they better understand what gives them the best start to do that, successfully.

    And how failing to do those things can impact a dogs ability, like being raised without that early socialisation and experience.

    Instead of just blocking wrong choices, give the tools needed to make right choices.

    Under the current constitution of the dominant K.Cs, We are effectively locked in to just blocking wrong choices, because they can ONLY RESTRICT, or limmit choice, to achieve their goals. Their quest for improvement MUST be based on ELIMINATION of what doesn't fit their ideal. They limmit the availability of cultural and genetic response to the demands of their environment.

    It removes ability and choice of response. It removes responsibility. What happens to dogs with closed breeding is reflected in the culture.
    We loose responsibility. Just like closed line breeding can only keep reducing the available genetic choice, or response.
    Last edited by Strange fruit; 07-27-2015 at 05:20 PM.

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