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Thread: Entering into breeding and want every scrap of advice

  1. #51
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    May 2009
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    Ahhhh right I see. Hmm..will begin working on him this weekend. Maybe bonnie too, she's super responsive.

  2. #52

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    Hey striker,

    Whilst you may think the negative posters are your enemy, IMO you'd be better off considering them your friend. There have been some great suggestions along the way but do please take the negatives on board i.e breeding your unpapered, non working bitch who has absolutlely no real benefit to the breed is unethical IMO. Don't just dismiss that advice, take it on board and think about the reasons why people are giving you that advice.

    Like others have said, if you are determined to breed, then pretty much forget your current dogs, do some real research and get some pedigree dogs that suit what you are trying to achieve.

    I have absolutely no problem with responsible breeders, just pretty much everything you've said doesn't put you in that category. I've recently been through the process of assessing breeders an i can gaurantee you that the tag "registered breeder" does not equal "ethical breeder". If you are determined to breed, then do it for the right reasons - show, agility, working whatever, just make sure you are creating the best dog that you can for whatever purpose you strive for

    Edit : once you've decided on what you want to achieve with your breeding program go to shows, working comps whatever, get to know the people who are doing it right and lean on them for advice as to how to do it best. Just make sure you pick the right breeder to show you the ropes and not some dodgy BYB/puppy farmer type
    Last edited by mymatejack; 05-23-2013 at 01:57 AM.

  3. #53
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    You're forgetting one of my dogs is pedigree, with papers. I'm not going to forget him because he is useful to me in that regard, pet qualities aside.

  4. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Striker View Post
    You're forgetting one of my dogs is pedigree, with papers. I'm not going to forget him because he is useful to me in that regard, pet qualities aside.
    He isn't a show dog, he isn't a working dog, he has no agility experience, what exactly will breeding him do to improve the breed? Breeding for pets alone is unethical, there are already waaaaaay too many people doing that, please don't join them(doing so effectively makes you a BYB/puppy farmer, registered or not)

  5. #55
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    "Like others have said, if you are determined to breed, then pretty much forget your current dogs, do some real research and get some pedigree dogs that suit what you are trying to achieve."

    I have a pedigree dog that suits my needs. I've made it abundantly clear that I'll be training him in agility, and actually he's from agility/herding and show lines, so yeah he does have that going for him. I'm not a puppy farmer - do you know what they do? They mass produce pups with an entire kennel of breeding-only dogs, with minimal contact, resulting in ill, non-socialised puppies for a quick profit only. So it's pretty rude to liken me to that when I'm only interested in a single litter atm.

    As far as breeding for pets being unethical is, I suppose it is on a grand scale. However, with a lineup of people who are willing to provide a good home to the (desexed) puppies (have talked to them again recently), I don't think it is. I guess it's based on your view of ethical - they've all expressed sincere affection and liking of both Bonnie and Rebel, and I don't see how it would be harmful to breed a single litter which won't be reproducing (the puppies that is) to provide pets for these people. As far as health goes, provided the exams are cleared, they're fine. No, they're not contributing to the breed, because the pups will be desexed, but they'd be contributing to a family's life, and I don't see how breeding needs to be ALL about creating the 'perfect specimen'. I mean, you know who else was all about that? Clue: He was Austrian*.

    Provided I have the health certs to clear the dogs and a contract from each prospective owner to make sure they'll provide a forever home and won't ditch out on me in the last minute, I don't think it's unethical.

    I only want to say this once more: Rebel will be staying entire and will be used in my breeding program later. Bonnie, if used at all, will have 1 litter then she's done. Like I've said probably at least 15 times, I will be doing more research in these next few months, and training Rebel up for agility (which is semi-separate to the breeding, because I was thinking of showing one or both of them at some point in agility or obedience but I think Bonnie is unsuited to the mental strain it'd place on her).
    Last edited by Striker; 05-23-2013 at 11:28 PM.

  6. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Striker View Post
    So it's pretty rude to liken me to that when I'm only interested in a single litter atm.
    What is the reason behind your producing a single litter?

  7. #57
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    I just said haha:

    "As far as breeding for pets being unethical is, I suppose it is on a grand scale. However, with a lineup of people who are willing to provide a good home to the (desexed) puppies (have talked to them again recently), I don't think it is. I guess it's based on your view of ethical - they've all expressed sincere affection and liking of both Bonnie and Rebel, and I don't see how it would be harmful to breed a single litter which won't be reproducing (the puppies that is) to provide pets for these people. As far as health goes, provided the exams are cleared, they're fine. No, they're not contributing to the breed, because the pups will be desexed, but they'd be contributing to a family's life, and I don't see how breeding needs to be ALL about creating the 'perfect specimen'"

    The people I've got interested want border collie puppies, but they like my dogs, and want a pup from them instead of paying the exorbitant prices rego'd breeders charge. They're uninterested in papers and pedigree, and want a pet, with the chance of agility later on (from a few of them - not the majority).

  8. #58

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    Maybe you should take a walk through your local pound and see the problems BYB's like yourself cause - then come back and tell us you're breeding mutts cause you love animals. Whatever, i'm done.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Striker View Post
    "Like others have said, if you are determined to breed, then pretty much forget your current dogs, do some real research and get some pedigree dogs that suit what you are trying to achieve."

    I have a pedigree dog that suits my needs. I've made it abundantly clear that I'll be training him in agility, and actually he's from agility/herding and show lines, so yeah he does have that going for him. I'm not a puppy farmer - do you know what they do? They mass produce pups with an entire kennel of breeding-only dogs, with minimal contact, resulting in ill, non-socialised puppies for a quick profit only. So it's pretty rude to liken me to that when I'm only interested in a single litter atm.

    As far as breeding for pets being unethical is, I suppose it is on a grand scale. However, with a lineup of people who are willing to provide a good home to the (desexed) puppies (have talked to them again recently), I don't think it is. I guess it's based on your view of ethical - they've all expressed sincere affection and liking of both Bonnie and Rebel, and I don't see how it would be harmful to breed a single litter which won't be reproducing (the puppies that is) to provide pets for these people. As far as health goes, provided the exams are cleared, they're fine. No, they're not contributing to the breed, because the pups will be desexed, but they'd be contributing to a family's life, and I don't see how breeding needs to be ALL about creating the 'perfect specimen'. I mean, you know who else was all about that? Clue: He was German.

    Provided I have the health certs to clear the dogs and a contract from each prospective owner to make sure they'll provide a forever home and won't ditch out on me in the last minute, I don't think it's unethical.

    I only want to say this once more: Rebel will be staying entire and will be used in my breeding program later. Bonnie, if used at all, will have 1 litter then she's done. Like I've said probably at least 15 times, I will be doing more research in these next few months, and training Rebel up for agility (which is semi-separate to the breeding, because I was thinking of showing one or both of them at some point in agility or obedience but I think Bonnie is unsuited to the mental strain it'd place on her).
    Breeding needs to be about breeding sound, even tempered, well structured dogs. Yes this can be done without papered dogs but you certainly need to be sure that is what you will produce. If Bonnie is unsuited to mental strain then she is probably not suited to breeding, particularly if you dont know the temperaments of dogs she has come from. If you want the pups to be part of a family this is really important. Confident dogs that recover quickly form upsets are what you are looking for to breed from. Anything else and you are potentially on a slippery slope. Quite a lot of these working breed dogs that end up in rescue have nervous temperaments, I have 2.

    With Rebel, I would make the decision about breeding him a little down the track. I would also check the hipscores of his lines. This is important. This should be easy to check as you have his papers. His breeder can give you this info. He may not need the eye tests if he is clear by parentage. My showbred BC comes from a breeder in QLD and she sent me the certificates of her parents which were clear and this means she is clear by parentage.

    Structure is also important. This is not about creating a perfect dog it is about creating a dog that will be healthy into old age. The poorer the structure the more chance of arthritis and other problems. Creating a dog with as minimal potential problems as possible is much fairer on the dog and the potential owners. I have spent many thousands of dollars for surgical procedures over the years to give better quality of life to poorly structured dogs from well meaning but less than well thought out breedings.

    You also need to be prepared to take dogs back if problems arise.

    So lots to think about and learn. I personally would only breed from dogs that are sound of temperament and sound of structure for any home, working, sport or pet.

  10. #60
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    May 2012
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    Search all dogs have a look at that link (if it works). Currently there are 3238 dogs looking for new homes, and that's the lucky ones, imagine how many have been PTS at pounds, shot by owners etc. Not to mention all the ones that aren't advertised on that website or that are still waiting for desexing, testing etc before being advertised.

    I'd willingly say that the majority of the 3238 dogs were bred by people thinking that they were doing the right thing, breeding unpapered dogs and having 'just one litter'. Nobody ever wants the puppies that they bred to end up homeless, but it obviously happens. Your heart is in the right place, but there are already so many dogs wanting homes, what is bringing possibly 12 more into the world going to do? Maybe you will have homes for them all but that's up to 12 shelter dogs who will remain in cold, lonely cages because people have bought off what is essentially a BYB (not puppy farmer) instead. Go walk around a shelter before you breed, see how you feel afterwards.

    You're only 17, PLEASE wait a few more years before you consider breeding. When I was 17 I would've loved to breed my dogs too but I think you have to move out, gain responsibilities, support yourself, pay rent/a mortgage, cook/clean/entertain, gain perspective on how many homeless animals there are etc before you even start to consider bringing another live thing into this world, be it a human baby, puppies, kittens etc.

    As I said, your heart is in the right place and you're planning great future homes for your puppies but how many of those 3238 dog 'breeders' thought they were giving their dogs to great homes too...

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