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Thread: Entering into breeding and want every scrap of advice

  1. #31
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    I forgot that ANKC rule... you must only breed pedigree (ANKC papered) dogs with other ANKC papered dogs of the same breed... there's a whole lot more to it than that one but that's a fairly important one.

    Ruby McNugget - glad to get that update about your new vet... the good ones are so important.
    Striker - don't mind our slight side track to the thread but Ruby has been through some of what you are getting from us right now.

    Striker - the other thing you might want to check is the ideal breeding age. I don't know what your idea of the far future is - but I think 4 years old is a good breeding age and 8 years old is starting to push the edge of not so good... ANKC has some specific guidelines on that - as will your vet and Rebel's breeder - so ask. Theoretically boy dogs can go on when they're older but it's possible the quality of their sperm (and puppies) may not be as good as when they're in the ideal age for breeding.

    This website says you should not breed a bitch for the first time if she is older than 4.5 years...
    Care Of the Brood Bitch - Thinking Of Breeding
    because she has lost some of the flexibility a bitch needs to have puppies. Might want to discuss that with your vet also.

  2. #32
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    I do want to try and get them into advertising. I've had loads of comments on their looks and Bonnie's eyes especially, and I don't think advertising agents care if it's 'breed standard' or not, as long as it's appealing. I'm not really sure how to go about it though, how do you get into that sort of thing?
    I think dances with dogs - is the best stuff for all round trick training. For Film and TV - your dog needs to be able to learn series of tricks and be able to perform them at some distance from you while making eye contact with the human lead - and having loads of distracting tug toys hanging from poles all around (boom mikes).

    from what I've read - it can be quite hard work for human and dog. I've got no idea how you finally break into the industry... A lot of the agencies go directly to some animal wrangler professionals - who have lots of animals and dogs and can organise other critters on request ie they're friends with people who keep birds or snakes and etc.

    Is your pet destined for stardom? - that's life!

    You probably want to make friends with a few tv / commercial producer types. And you'd probably have to be quite persistent and really good at handling rejection well. Ie it might take 1000 auditions to get one part. So you can't be upset when the first 10 auditions don't get anywhere.

    PS this is the team from the Jeep ad
    http://www.facebook.com/thewonderdogs
    Last edited by Hyacinth; 05-20-2013 at 10:46 PM.

  3. #33
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    Well she won't be 4 until Sept 27, but I round up to be safe. So she still has at least a year to go before she's at that optimum age. By that point Rebel will be fertile, if he is - he's coming on to 11 months old now. So if I do end up breeding these two, by this time next year they'll both be a good age to breed. If not Bonnie then I've got even longer with Rebs.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyacinth View Post
    I forgot that ANKC rule... you must only breed pedigree (ANKC papered) dogs with other ANKC papered dogs of the same breed... there's a whole lot more to it than that one but that's a fairly important one.
    Aaah yeah this just clicked with me too. If I were Rebels breeder I would be far from impressed that he was being put over an unpapered bitch. That is their hard work going down the drain in a way.

    If I were you I would desex Bonnie, start doing some work with Rebel in showing or what ever and then use him to either start your own breeding program or stud out.

    If you are still going to use her though I would ensure before you breed to get deposits from the people who you know that are claiming they are after a dog. It's funny how many people say they want a puppy until the puppy is actually here. Taking deposits will rule out those that aren't really serious.

    There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face.

  5. #35
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    So she still has at least a year to go before she's at that optimum age
    The way I read the info... optimum age for starting breeding is about 2 - 2.5 years old, and if you're breeding regularily (every 18 months to 2 years) - stop at 6 years ish.

    If the bitch has NEVER had puppies - if she gets to 4.5 years old - it's TOO LATE to start.

    Do check with your vet and maybe Rebel's breeder. But I'm not sure Rebel's breeder would be real keen on you putting him with an unpapered bitch too - have you talked to her about it? And note - all the puppies of an ANKC papered pair must also be registered and microchipped and that costs money too. You probably want to do a budget that includes
    * vet costs, plan for how many vet visits and check ups and post delivery check ups $$$
    * microchipping $
    * ANKC registration $$
    * vax and worming on top of the vet costs $$
    * feed
    * accessories like whelping box, id tags, stuff that goes with pregnant dog. You can make some of these things, but you still need to find the raw materials.

  6. #36
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    Well. For the moment, it's all up in the air. Like I said, Bonnie, if bred, will be a once-off litter - Rebel will not. Rebel's line is the one I intend to put through, so to speak. If Bonnie does have a litter, the pups will be desexed before going to new homes so there are no accidents, and none will be papered.

    Look up how old a male dog can breed until, apparently it's their whole lives, but depends on the dog - a lot of places say up to 10 years though, which is good news because he'll be viable for a long while yet, by which time I'll have definitely sorted out land etc. I'm excited - if not for Bonnie, then for Rebel definitely.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Striker View Post
    Well. For the moment, it's all up in the air. Like I said, Bonnie, if bred, will be a once-off litter - Rebel will not. Rebel's line is the one I intend to put through, so to speak. If Bonnie does have a litter, the pups will be desexed before going to new homes so there are no accidents, and none will be papered.
    Seems to go through one ear and out the other.... I am outie cause its getting annoying

    There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face.

  8. #38

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    Do you even show your dogs?

  9. #39
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    Not yet. But then I don't plan to breed instantly either. Reminds me of that saying 'do you even lift' haha, no clue why. And no it's not going through one ear and out the other, I came to ask advice about breeding, not to be berated for even asking in the first place. I've gotten some very useful advice and food for thought. Anyway it feels like we're going round and round in circles. Thanks for the advice, those who gave it, I'll think on it.

  10. #40
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    As the owner of both working bred BCs and a showbred BC here are my thoughts.

    First of all you can get Bonnie tested for the genetic eye diseases and TNS and that will give good information. The problem will be with hip and elbow scans. Even if her scans are good, you really need information from her ancestors. You dont know her genetic background so have no information of what she was bred from. This can be disasterous from a dysplasia point of view, believe me, without going in to detail I know this from first hand experience.

    In working dogs, inbreeding is a very valuable tool to set desirable working traits in lines of working dogs. In the hands of experienced and knowlegable breeders there should be few problems and some of the best herding dogs that ever walked this earth are the results of carefully planned inbreeding. The working breeders I know work out their inbreeding coeficients when planning matings. They also do a complete assessment of heritable working traits.

    Correct structure in my opinion is very important so a working knowledge of how to asses your dogs structure is very important. I personally dont care about the set of ears or markings in my working Border collies but I do care about structure and herding traits. Good angles, shoulder lay back, topline, paw structure all can affect a working dog. Or any other dog for that matter. Straight shoulders and other structure problems can limit the life of an agility dog for example.

    My working dogs are obviously not registered with ANKC, they are on working dog registers.

    If I were you I would really carefully assess what your goals are for breeding. There are lots of Border collies on offer. I would personally start out with 2 dogs that you have plenty of information on. Yes, dogs were originally bred from mongrels but back then there was an awfull lot of culling to get the desired traits. Why not start with 2 dogs that you know the lineage of and have knowledge about as this is likely to reduce the chance of genetic disasters.

    When I look for a working dog I look at the lines of dogs that sit behind the puppy because this will give good information as to how that dog is likely to work. I look for specific charateristcs that will suit what I need the dog for.

    Obviously you are not in a position to breed working Border collies so you need to work out what your goals are if you want to become a breeder. There are some very nice ANKC Border collies suitable for wide range of suburban pursuits and dog sports that come from good breeders. I see plenty of them at dog sport venues. I personally prefer the working bred dogs because I run sheep, but if you think they are not subject to backcrossing then think again!
    Last edited by Kalacreek; 05-21-2013 at 09:18 PM.

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