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Thread: contract of sale?

  1. #11
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    RileyJ I was not aware that you are judge and jury, nowhere in my posts have i said that we have done any health testing sure, but i have also not said anywhere that i have not. thats because mating was 9 weeks ago, im finished thinking about that stuff for the moment, we can only wait for the birth so im thinking about my pups future. why would i include a "money back guarantee" on the pups health if i thought there was a possibility of these issues? you know how expensive a litter is and our aim is healthy and productive pups and i would not have ever have agreed to breed her (nor would the dog owner have risked their name) if there was no testing done. this post was asking simply if anyone could share what they do, im not looking at going to court just making sure the buyers understand what they are entering into by buying a puppy and also give them some peace of mind. i wasnt aware that i had to share every little detail in order to ask a question, you know what they say about people who assume, you know nothing of the situation that led me to this point and to be honest even if this was an accidental pregnancy to an unknown dog i would still be eagerly awaiting the pups.

    Hyacinth though we never signed on it we agreed to have her spayed by her fifth birthday, the reasoning was to prevent mammory/reproductive tumours as apparently the risk increases around then??? i might put that in too, will talk with the vet to see what she says about an incentive. there was a similar line in the sample but i was still thinking about the wording to use as obviously i cant MAKE people do anything, as you said once i sell the puppy i have no control. and yes, i got the sample contract from bordercollie.org and it says that that line is to prevent the dog or its offspring being used in puppy farms/mills. as i said im just hoping to encourage some responsibility in the owners im not making a legally binding document.

    4 pups (what we could see on the ultrasound at 4 weeks) are already sold, they had applied for the fathers last litter with his owners bitch but missed out so she has told them that he has another litter coming through our dog, my grandfather has said he wants to look them over (not committing to anything as his dogs are champions he doesnt want to commit to a pup that could be a dud as far as sheep dogs go) so i dont have to worry about those ones i just have to weed out good owners for any others that might come, xray is booked for monday if she hasnt had them by then so we will know one way or another. i swore it would be today! but still no signs of labour, if i didnt have a sick breastfed baby i would be sleeping beside her tonight lol

  2. #12
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    Aug 2009
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    Adelaide
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    mrsburrows09

    It looks like you're doing all the right things to me. Have you asked your bitch's breeder or your sire's breeder about sale contracts - what did they have, what would they include now that didn't go quite right before?

    Sometimes if you don't intend certain bits to be legally binding but more guidelines / requests - it can help to frame them that way. Ie a bit more please do this, and less "thou shalt not". Eg incentives, requests and discounts work better than threats and penalties. Tho with puppy farmers - you may have to ask around other BC breeders to see if there is anyone they will not sell to because... I vaguely remember reading somewhere "do not sell to this person" ... but of course threads like that don't stay up on the boards very long and you'd have to ask around. Ask around the people involved in whatever your puppies are likely to end up doing eg farm work or agility etc - you may also get a few ideas about who are not the kindest to their dogs that way too.

  3. #13

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    'mrsburrows09' – now that the dust has somewhat settled on this thread – and also I saw on your other thread - the arrival of your BC pups – I thought that I would give an answer to your post above.

    I wish to thank you for the label you have given me. I obviously hit a nerve – so I am pleased !

    I am always mindful of the fact that this forum is very public, and so my replies in all threads are not only for the OP – but everyone else who may read that particular thread ! I endeavour at all times for my replies to be honest and factual with links for further information – if appropriate !

    If I am able to change one person’s mind or make them think further before they bred their dogs – then I feel that I have achieved my goal ! Obviously being on a forum like this – I would hope the information I put up will hit more people than just 1 !

    As far as the health concerns I have for BCs – they are very real and devastating for the dogs and owners – particularly TNS, CL and CEA. As all of these 3 in particular, can be tested by a DNA test – my question is – why would a responsible breeder of BCs not do the DNA tests ?

    Just think, if all breeders of BCs in Australia DNA tested for TNS, CL and CEA – it wouldn't be very long before these diseases would not be a worry for BCs in Australia ! But – alas – I am dreaming here big time - and I know it will never happen !

    So again, thank you 'mrsburrows09' for the label that you gave me – I will wear it with pride !

    So some more links for you:

    https://www.google.com.au/search?q=puppy+packs&aq=f&oq=puppy+packs&aqs=chrom e.0.57j0l3.6787j0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#hl=en&cr=countryAU&tbs=ctr:countryAU&sclient=psy-ab&q=puppy+packs+for+breeders&oq=puppy+packs+for+& gs_l=serp.1.2.0l3j0i22i30.39649.42775.2.45902.10.1 0.0.0.0.3.306.2242.0j2j7j1.10.0...0.0...1c.1.8.psy-ab.Swz_7YzCnb4&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.4477 0516,d.bmk&fp=a7034d10d8282623&biw=1228&bih=778

    http://www.bccq.org.au/Health.html

    The Border Collie Club of NSW Inc

    http://www.dogforum.com.au/general-d...you-breed.html

  4. #14
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    RileyJ

    I admire your passion - but I think maybe (I hope) - that MrsBurrows09 has done all the right things re dna tests on both her bitch and the dog too. They might not be ANKC, they might be working lines instead, but they can still do all the right things regards meeting demand (having homes for puppies in advance), and genetic testing, and then the vet stuff for mother and puppies.

    So I'm answering based on the assumption - she knows about all that and has done it.

    She might even have a mentor helping her with the breeding process but is just here looking for extra info - if we have it. If she's not ANKC - she's not going to be able to ask all the questions she wants over on the dark side.

  5. #15
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    Thankyou Hyacinth, no im not with the ANKC the dogs are from working lines though neither are working "professionally" if you can call it that, i was asked by the dogs owner when my bitch went on heat if we would have a litter as they wanted pups from that dog specifically and their other bitch is not compatible with him, as i said previously 4 of the pups were already sold through her, we will probably keep one and the other will go to my grandfather so the finding the right owner issue isnt a problem any more, i just didnt know how many we would be having! she was supposed to have the xray on Monday, wish we had had it earlier as we might not have lost the last 2 if we had known but hindsight is a wonderful thing. As for the testing the dog has been used as a stud so yes hes had the testing and my dog came with the cert saying both her parents had been tested and were clear, but she herself hasnt had genetic testing as i was told it wasn't necessary since her parents were ??? i hope thats right because i am only trying to do the right thing, this is her one and only litter as she is getting fixed before her next heat (as in agreement with the request her breeder made to have her fixed by her 5th birthday) and yes i only came here for extra opinions. RileyJ i do appreciate the information you have given me but not the judgement, i didnt think it was necessary to attack me the way you did when you knew nothing about me.
    Last edited by mrsburrows09; 04-11-2013 at 12:00 PM.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrsburrows09 View Post
    Thankyou Hyacinth, no im not with the ANKC the dogs are from working lines though neither are working "professionally" if you can call it that, i was asked by the dogs owner when my bitch went on heat if we would have a litter as they wanted pups from that dog specifically and their other bitch is not compatible with him, as i said previously 4 of the pups were already sold through her, we will probably keep one and the other will go to my grandfather so the finding the right owner issue isnt a problem any more, i just didnt know how many we would be having! she was supposed to have the xray on Monday, wish we had had it earlier as we might not have lost the last 2 if we had known but hindsight is a wonderful thing. As for the testing the dog has been used as a stud so yes hes had the testing and my dog came with the cert saying both her parents had been tested and were clear, but she herself hasnt had genetic testing as i was told it wasn't necessary since her parents were ??? i hope thats right because i am only trying to do the right thing, this is her one and only litter as she is getting fixed before her next heat (as in agreement with the request her breeder made to have her fixed by her 5th birthday) and yes i only came here for extra opinions. RileyJ i do appreciate the information you have given me but not the judgement, i didnt think it was necessary to attack me the way you did when you knew nothing about me.
    If your bitches parents are tested clear of the common genetic conditions of Border collies then your bitch will be also be clear.

    My feeling is that when you came on the site asking for informations about contracts with prospective owners it is fair to supply us with all the information and that includes the DNA status of your dogs. Otherwise it leaves BC owners like myself with a niggling concern. I have seen 3 litters of BC pups lost to TNS and it is incredibly unpleasant. 2 were backyard bred and one was a working breeder who immediately tested all their dogs after that incident.

    I have contracts from my BC breeders and they include a guarantee that they are free of genetic diseases by reason of parentage. The parents also had excellent hip and elbow scores and although this doesnt automatically mean they wont have HD it does reduce the incidence. I know several BCs with quite bad HD. My breeders guarantee a full refund if the dog scans for HD or the pick of another pup.

    One of my dogs is ANKC registered and the the other is on the working sheepdog register from a long line of registered working Border collies.

    Anyway good luck with your puppies
    Last edited by Kalacreek; 04-11-2013 at 01:23 PM.

  7. #17

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    In a contract is it fair to ask that puppy owners get health checks done at a certain age? I understand that the new owners would not want to pay the cost, but personally I would like to know how all my litter is going health wise and if there is an issue I would want to be on top of it and not let it be swept under the carpet.
    Another thing I thought, how about if in a contract we charge a little more but give them a refund once desexing and or health checks have been done. I would be happy to,give 50% of the purchase price back just to know my pups are healthy and don't get in to the hands of a BYB. It's easy to say we should vet every owner but some know exactly what to say to win your trust.

  8. #18
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    Another thing I thought, how about if in a contract we charge a little more but give them a refund once desexing and or health checks have been done.
    There's quite a few breeders who do this, charge extra and offer a cash refund on proof of desexing.

    If you want health checks or vet reports - maybe set out exactly what ones and offer refund based on their cost and recommend a vet to do them ie if they take their puppy to your vet for blood tests and general check up and consent for the results to be shared with you, then you refund them the cost of that visit and tests.

  9. #19
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    I do know of breeders where screening for HD and desexing are in their contract of sale. This HD information is required in the selection of future lines. The sterilisation is required because the genetics are closely guarded.

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